Another participant answering this message refers to what
she has learned from the experiences and knowledge from other forum
participants, agreeing with Bandura’s (1977) concept of vicarious
learning. The concept of vicarious learning refers to the human
capability to learn not only from one’s own experiences but
also through the observation of others. The poster also discloses
her own religious background, compares restrictions between the
religions and shares her own feelings about the subject: “Frankly,
I'm pretty fed up with ALL religions anymore.”
These following examples are also in response to the same thread
that questions why women convert to Islam. This time the posters
relate to the article that is previously posted telling a story
and reason why the article’s author converted to Islam. The
first example is a message from the same poster that has difficulties
in imagining herself in the shoes of Muslim-converted women. In
the second example, the message reflects the posters’ ability
to translate into her life what is said in the article:
I…thank you for the article
That's certainly another aspect and definitely filled with
truths..western society's emphasis on the physical beauty is getting
so out of hand and leading to anorexia nervosa and an overabundance
of diet books and of plastic surgeries...
That statement "I was able to see that the relationship
between men and women was unfairly stacked in the man's direction."
was interesting...because if I had seen that out of context I would
associate that with the Muslim world and not the western one of
And..it's true that it's quite difficult for us to differentiate
between the rules governed by culture and custom and those governed
by the Koran but that's why I love forums like these...people are
generous enough and patient enough to explain when they're able
and I love gathering bits of knowledge about an unknown subject....
That makes so much sense! As Mother to daughters, now out in the
dating world it really makes sense. Its so true that our girls dress
to attract boys. It has gotten out of hand, not just the lengths
Westerners, specifically in the U.S. will go to obtain beauty, but
the behavior of girls towards boy. Too, too often they do not develop
real relationships before giving their bodies away. They try to
keep boys and men through sex. Men don't learn that lasting relationships
require committment and work.
Reading someone else’s experience appears to have shed some
light in terms of added outlook on the subject. At this time, the
poster can critically look into her values and absorb a different
take on the subject. She can see the other one perspective, in a
dialogical and vicarious way. She is able then to refer to her ‘western”
world and critically see some problems derived from the focus on
physical beauty: “That's certainly another aspect and definitely
filled with truths..western society's emphasis on the physical beauty
is getting so out of hand and leading to anorexia nervosa and an
overabundance of diet books and of plastic surgeries...”
The examples that follow are from a different thread, a discussion
sparked by “El Clon’s” character “Samira”,
Mohamed and Latiffa’s daughter refusal to wear the veil. Samira’s
story is more a coming of age tale, however, this adolescent has
to contend with the contradictions of living in Rio, and having
to follow the rules of her religion (as present in the novela) enforced
by her conservative father. Some posters respond in a humorous way,
nevertheless expressing referential involvement.
about the veil thing…
First off: Hi! I'm new!
All right. To the subjet matter:
I have met a number of muslim women here in my country (venezuela)
and none of them wear the veil. I'd say that its use depends on
the level of traditionalism the family has in respect to the Coran,
if Samira knew more muslim families living in the west, she'd realize
that matter can be discused wisely...
The problem is: her family is heavy on muslim law, and I don't think
they can change their views that easely, she'd have to "work
them" to convince them that not wearing the veil is an actual
What I think samira needs is libian friends... they are more
I wouldn’t mind wearing a veil in a bad hair
I think I look awful in a veil because
I can't even find a ski hat that looks flattering on me so I opt
for a band just to cover my ears and I freeze my head when it's
breezy on top of the mountain. Vanity first! LOL!
I have an oval shape face and for some reason I can't wear
hats either. Perhaps is how I think I look but I don't want to look
any worse. LOL!
Some women look good in hats, like the late Princess Di. Other
women look good in veils, like Nazira. Some women look ugly with
the veil, like Ranya's sister (isn't she ugly? She's mean and ugly;
terrible combination!) I think Karima looks uglier with the veil,
I'm also glad I don't have to wear one, except when my hair
looks really awful!
By the way, I don’t criticize the veil. I do think it
takes a lot of courage to wear the veil when you don’t really
have to. I mean, not all muslins wear the veil. I heard Carlos Ponce’s
(the singer) wife is Muslin but she doesn’t wear a veil. I
wonder whether it’s OK for him to have other wives. I’ll
get in line! My selfishness will go away in a second. He’s
so cute and seems like a really good family man. LOL!!! That’s
a joke, of course!
Remember when we had to wear hats…..
all the time, and we Catholics had to wear a veil to attend
mass on Sundays? I miss the hats. My face looked better
with a hat on.
Re: Remember when we had to wear hats…..
Yes, that's right...at one time, Catholic women had to wear
a chapel veil or hat to church. If you think about it, the veil
goes back for centuries...and not just Muslim women had to wear
them. Again, Catholic nuns used to wear veils. Brides wear veils
to this day...even in America. The Blessed Mother is never painted
without a veil... Hassidic Jewish women and I think Orthodox Jews
also have to wear a "shmatta". I might have spelled that
wrong. But the point is, the Bible says that the hair is a woman's
crowning glory...a beauty asset. That's why a modest and respectable
woman covers her beauty, so as not to sinfully entice a man to be
filled with lust. Well, me personally....I don't think my long stringy
hair would drive a man to lust...so I'm safe!
The messages discuss the subject, even when the participants are
joking, demonstrating referential involvement, relating the use
of the veil to their own experiences. One poster even refers Samira
to her own friends, in order to help her deal with her situation.