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Another participant answering this message refers to what she has learned from the experiences and knowledge from other forum participants, agreeing with Bandura’s (1977) concept of vicarious learning. The concept of vicarious learning refers to the human capability to learn not only from one’s own experiences but also through the observation of others. The poster also discloses her own religious background, compares restrictions between the religions and shares her own feelings about the subject: “Frankly, I'm pretty fed up with ALL religions anymore.”

These following examples are also in response to the same thread that questions why women convert to Islam. This time the posters relate to the article that is previously posted telling a story and reason why the article’s author converted to Islam. The first example is a message from the same poster that has difficulties in imagining herself in the shoes of Muslim-converted women. In the second example, the message reflects the posters’ ability to translate into her life what is said in the article:

I…thank you for the article

That's certainly another aspect and definitely filled with truths..western society's emphasis on the physical beauty is getting so out of hand and leading to anorexia nervosa and an overabundance of diet books and of plastic surgeries...

That statement "I was able to see that the relationship between men and women was unfairly stacked in the man's direction." was interesting...because if I had seen that out of context I would associate that with the Muslim world and not the western one of today!

And..it's true that it's quite difficult for us to differentiate between the rules governed by culture and custom and those governed by the Koran but that's why I love forums like these...people are generous enough and patient enough to explain when they're able and I love gathering bits of knowledge about an unknown subject....

That makes so much sense! As Mother to daughters, now out in the dating world it really makes sense. Its so true that our girls dress to attract boys. It has gotten out of hand, not just the lengths Westerners, specifically in the U.S. will go to obtain beauty, but the behavior of girls towards boy. Too, too often they do not develop real relationships before giving their bodies away. They try to keep boys and men through sex. Men don't learn that lasting relationships require committment and work.

Reading someone else’s experience appears to have shed some light in terms of added outlook on the subject. At this time, the poster can critically look into her values and absorb a different take on the subject. She can see the other one perspective, in a dialogical and vicarious way. She is able then to refer to her ‘western” world and critically see some problems derived from the focus on physical beauty: “That's certainly another aspect and definitely filled with truths..western society's emphasis on the physical beauty is getting so out of hand and leading to anorexia nervosa and an overabundance of diet books and of plastic surgeries...”

The examples that follow are from a different thread, a discussion sparked by “El Clon’s” character “Samira”, Mohamed and Latiffa’s daughter refusal to wear the veil. Samira’s story is more a coming of age tale, however, this adolescent has to contend with the contradictions of living in Rio, and having to follow the rules of her religion (as present in the novela) enforced by her conservative father. Some posters respond in a humorous way, nevertheless expressing referential involvement.

about the veil thing…
First off: Hi! I'm new!

All right. To the subjet matter:
I have met a number of muslim women here in my country (venezuela) and none of them wear the veil. I'd say that its use depends on the level of traditionalism the family has in respect to the Coran, if Samira knew more muslim families living in the west, she'd realize that matter can be discused wisely...
The problem is: her family is heavy on muslim law, and I don't think they can change their views that easely, she'd have to "work them" to convince them that not wearing the veil is an actual option.

What I think samira needs is libian friends... they are more relaxed. ^_^

I wouldn’t mind wearing a veil in a bad hair day! nt

I think I look awful in a veil because
I can't even find a ski hat that looks flattering on me so I opt for a band just to cover my ears and I freeze my head when it's breezy on top of the mountain. Vanity first! LOL!

I have an oval shape face and for some reason I can't wear hats either. Perhaps is how I think I look but I don't want to look any worse. LOL!

Some women look good in hats, like the late Princess Di. Other women look good in veils, like Nazira. Some women look ugly with the veil, like Ranya's sister (isn't she ugly? She's mean and ugly; terrible combination!) I think Karima looks uglier with the veil, too.

I'm also glad I don't have to wear one, except when my hair looks really awful!

By the way, I don’t criticize the veil. I do think it takes a lot of courage to wear the veil when you don’t really have to. I mean, not all muslins wear the veil. I heard Carlos Ponce’s (the singer) wife is Muslin but she doesn’t wear a veil. I wonder whether it’s OK for him to have other wives. I’ll get in line! My selfishness will go away in a second. He’s so cute and seems like a really good family man. LOL!!! That’s a joke, of course!

Remember when we had to wear hats…..
all the time, and we Catholics had to wear a veil to attend
mass on Sundays? I miss the hats. My face looked better
with a hat on.

Re: Remember when we had to wear hats…..

Yes, that's right...at one time, Catholic women had to wear a chapel veil or hat to church. If you think about it, the veil goes back for centuries...and not just Muslim women had to wear them. Again, Catholic nuns used to wear veils. Brides wear veils to this day...even in America. The Blessed Mother is never painted without a veil... Hassidic Jewish women and I think Orthodox Jews also have to wear a "shmatta". I might have spelled that wrong. But the point is, the Bible says that the hair is a woman's crowning glory...a beauty asset. That's why a modest and respectable woman covers her beauty, so as not to sinfully entice a man to be filled with lust. Well, me personally....I don't think my long stringy hair would drive a man to lust...so I'm safe!

The messages discuss the subject, even when the participants are joking, demonstrating referential involvement, relating the use of the veil to their own experiences. One poster even refers Samira to her own friends, in order to help her deal with her situation.



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